Embedded Files
00:00:00 Anthony
Hello everybody, welcome to the Ego Lab podcast.
00:00:03 Anthony
I'm Tony.
00:00:04 Brian
And I'm Brian.
00:00:05 Anthony
Today's topic is hope.
00:00:07 Anthony
In our last episode we talked about how to cope with failures and how to grow from them.
00:00:12 Anthony
In this episode, we're going to take a look at the other side of the coin.
00:00:16 Anthony
How do you optimize hope so you can focus on things in your life that bring you joy.
00:00:21 Brian
All right, Tony, let's kick it off with a.
00:00:23 Brian
Short quote.
00:00:24 Brian
It's the possibility.
00:00:25 Brian
Of having a dream come true that makes life interesting.
00:00:28 Brian
Paulo Coelho.
00:00:31 Anthony
So Brian, why would?
00:00:32 Anthony
We want to spend any time discussing hope.
00:00:35 Brian
So when you look at life you have all these moments that require you to bring your a game or you know
to get through them and it's the hope of the things that can go right, or that can change your life for the
better or that can inspire you that really make life worth living.
00:00:49 Anthony
Yeah, for some reason Hope takes this very.
00:00:54 Anthony
specific.
00:00:56 Anthony
In my heart I I think I associate it with like all the deeply.
00:01:01 Anthony
Emotional things.
00:01:04 Anthony
Which I'm not sure.
00:01:04 Anthony
Why that is, but I do think that there's.
00:01:07 Anthony
a big difference between optimism and hope in that way.
00:01:12 Anthony
Like I think hope is more of maybe an emotion and optimism is more of a mindset or a choice even.
00:01:22 Brian
Interesting, yeah.
00:01:23 Brian
I was just listening to this book called the Book of Joy with the Dalai Lama and Archbishop Desmond
Tutu and the.
00:01:31 Brian
The book is kind of based on their interviews together and in the book they talk about.
00:01:34 Brian
The juxtaposition of you know is hope and optimism or hope and optimism the same.
00:01:39 Brian
Thing and then the Archbishop was saying they're not and hope is like a deep core.
00:01:46 Brian
Part of what makes people want to continue to to live in times of struggle and to grow and to pursue
greater challenges.
00:01:52 Brian
And you can have this emotional piece of.
00:01:55 Brian
In the moment, being optimistic, but it's the hope deep down in your soul, your spirit that makes you
want to get to that next level and keep going.
00:02:03 Brian
And when things get tough, it's the that deep hope that pushes people.
00:02:07 Anthony
Yeah, right off the bat.
00:02:09 Anthony
I mean, you're immediately taking me to man search for meaning with Viktor Frankel.
00:02:14 Anthony
The hope.
00:02:15 Anthony
That just being in the most dire and.
00:02:19 Anthony
And most challenging situations, you just see this this vibrant hope.
00:02:25 Anthony
And that's what that's what helps people hang on.
00:02:29 Anthony
That's what helps people get through any of the deepest struggles.
00:02:31 Anthony
This hope in this.
00:02:33 Anthony
This deeper connection to life.
00:02:37 Anthony
I would say in this.
00:02:39 Anthony
Search for.
00:02:41 Anthony
Meaningfulness, which I guess is exactly.
00:02:45 Anthony
The title of the book.
00:02:46 Brian
Yeah, Viktor Frankel talks about anyone who has a why can survive any how.
00:02:52 Anthony
It's almost like the why.
00:02:55 Anthony
Just exists in the future.
00:02:57 Anthony
That's kind of what it seems like to me.
00:02:59 Anthony
Like you don't need to know the why.
00:03:04 Anthony
But it is there because you know there is a future.
00:03:08 Anthony
Which thus makes you hopeful.
00:03:10 Brian
I think when we talk about everyone, why it it might be different.
00:03:15 Brian
It's not necessarily.
00:03:17 Brian
A goal of I need to get to a certain place at this year Y could be a person could be your family doesn't
necessarily have to be some arbitrary thing.
00:03:26 Brian
You can kind of move along throughout life.
00:03:29 Brian
It could be something very simple.
00:03:31 Anthony
Yeah, I love it.
00:03:33 Brian
So Tony is there a placebo effect for optimism and hope?
00:03:37 Brian
And do you think believing you're going to do better actually makes you do better?
00:03:42 Anthony
You know, I absolutely think there is a placebo effect for optimism and hope.
00:03:48 Anthony
I actually I've heard a couple of great anecdotes about this.
00:03:52 Anthony
There's just one story about.
00:03:55 Anthony
A kid and he's failing miserably throughout his high school career and eventually it comes around college
time and he has to take this SAT Test and so he goes in and he gets the letter in the mail and he got.
00:04:11 Anthony
A great score.
00:04:13 Anthony
Even though he was just a terrible student and so his mother asked him.
00:04:17 Anthony
Did you cheat?
00:04:19 Anthony
No, I swear.
00:04:20 Anthony
I tried to cheat.
00:04:21 Anthony
I couldn't see over the Scantron.
00:04:23 Anthony
It didn't make sense. I didn't cheat, I swear. So the kid starts thinking he got this 1480 and he goes on.
He he starts showing up to class in college.
00:04:34 Anthony
He starts his own business and he becomes a successful magazine entrepreneur seven years later.
00:04:41 Anthony
After he's a successful entrepreneur and he gets a letter in the mail from Princeton and they say to him,
yeah, you were one of the few tests that actually got sent the wrong score.
00:04:53 Anthony
The message of the story here is that he wasn't any smarter.
00:04:57 Anthony
He just started believing that he was smarter.
00:05:00 Anthony
This is directly a placebo effect for optimism and for hope.
00:05:04 Anthony
He started to believe that he was smart and he could actually accomplish things and he started acting
that way.
00:05:10 Anthony
So I do think that there is a placebo effect.
00:05:13 Anthony
If you believe in yourself.
00:05:15 Anthony
Then in turn, that can be a causation to the actions that lead to making you a better person and doing
better in life.
00:05:24 Brian
For sure, yeah.
00:05:25 Brian
I love that story.
00:05:25 Brian
There's so many good messages in there.
00:05:27 Brian
I actually had a similar experience senior year.
00:05:29 Brian
I started to do a little bit better in high school and I was like, yeah, maybe you know I'm better than the
B or C student.
00:05:35 Brian
I've been.
00:05:35 Brian
Maybe I have potential.
00:05:36 Brian
Being a student, if I put my mind to it the first day I walked onto my college campus and I just had this
experience of wow these next four years.
00:05:43 Brian
Like it's time to turn it up, let's see what I can do.
00:05:46 Brian
I believe in myself.
00:05:47 Brian
I'm going to make this a different experience and maybe I'm not a straight A.
00:05:49 Brian
Student, but I'm going to do my best.
00:05:51 Brian
And I came pretty close to to achieving that.
00:05:54 Brian
It can happen to you by accident or you can make the conscious decision that I'm going.
00:05:58 Brian
To select a thought.
00:06:00 Brian
Pattern and I'm going to stick with that and I'm going to try to bring that into reality.
00:06:04 Brian
Maybe I haven't been a certain person in the past, but now I am.
00:06:08 Brian
I'm making this decision and yeah, that can certainly give you hope.
00:06:11 Anthony
Yeah, you brought in kind of values and identity here which we talked a lot about in our last episode, but
it makes me curious.
00:06:20 Anthony
Do you think that hope
00:06:23 Anthony
Is that something that's strictly a personal thing, like your own identity and your own values, or is hope
something that is also
00:06:32 Anthony
A community thing, something that's shared with other people?
00:06:36 Brian
Absolutely, it's a community thing.
00:06:38 Brian
I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.
00:06:40 Anthony
I guess inherently because we're human beings and we all have similar emotions, and because hope, I
think, is such a powerful and deep emotion inherently that is a shared experience.
00:06:54 Anthony
I do kind of feel like I have an unclear.
00:06:58 Anthony
Grasp on on hope and I think this discussion is really helping actually.
00:07:02 Brian
So I just had this experience last year.
00:07:05 Brian
I was diagnosed with cancer.
00:07:07 Brian
Kind of fighting my way through that.
00:07:09 Brian
I just had surgery recently, but it was challenging and there were moments that you know the pain was
off the charts and my body was compromised and I was just everything was a challenge about the whole
process and you started looking.
00:07:22 Brian
You know, in those moments where everything feels.
00:07:24 Brian
Like the world?
00:07:25 Brian
Is crashing down and I and I was dealt.
00:07:27 Brian
This hand you know which is completely out of my control, and here I am having to literally fight for my
life and.
00:07:34 Brian
You know in that moment you start looking around for things and reasons and you try to find your why
and it's just a visceral experience of looking for that hope.
00:07:43 Brian
And it's definitely goes beyond emotions.
00:07:45 Brian
It's like ties into the will to live in my experience.
00:07:49 Brian
And and yeah, it it's.
00:07:52 Brian
I think we talked in an earlier podcast about intellectualizing things and trying to, you know, we could sit
here and talk about the idea of hope.
00:07:59 Brian
And it's another just to experience that hope.
00:08:01 Brian
And to you know, when things are at their darkest, and you find that hope and you latch onto it and you
use that as a will to keep going on.
00:08:10 Brian
You know that that's totally different than a conceptual idea of hope.
00:08:15 Anthony
I'm with you.
00:08:17 Anthony
Part of that is just Emotions. I guess you
00:08:22 Anthony
Can't really, I guess you can't really get your hand on them.
00:08:26 Anthony
It's more, it's an experience.
00:08:28 Anthony
You know it's it's touching to think that.
00:08:31 Anthony
When you go through something so severe.
00:08:34 Anthony
You get a grasp on something that can just be.
00:08:38 Anthony
Life changing.
00:08:40 Brian
Yeah, it's those moments where you know you can plan all you want to plan, but sometimes life has a
different idea for your plan and you know when you when you get met with those challenges.
00:08:52 Brian
How do you respond and oftentimes it's not even a choice you know?
00:08:56 Brian
You don't necessarily.
00:08:57 Brian
Choose to be hopeful in those really difficult moments.
00:09:00 Brian
That's the only choice.
00:09:01 Brian
You just do it.
00:09:03 Anthony
So what do you think would make somebody lose hope?
00:09:07 Anthony
Why would anyone not have hope?
00:09:12 Brian
You know, I'm fortunate.
00:09:14 Brian
I have a great support system around me as I've gone through this challenge over the past year.
00:09:18 Brian
Touching back on your idea of hope being a community thing.
00:09:22 Brian
I think support systems can be.
00:09:25 Brian
Critical in times where you might be lacking hope so for people who might be lacking hope.
00:09:30 Brian
Perhaps they're lacking some of these other pieces.
00:09:33 Anthony
Let's reel that back into.
00:09:36 Anthony
The overlap between positivity and hope.
00:09:39 Anthony
So in a way, in mindset is a choice.
00:09:44 Anthony
Can you choose to be hopeful by framing your mind in a positive way?
00:09:49 Anthony
Does that cause more hope?
00:09:53 Brian
Yeah, so when we had first discussed talking about hope as a podcast idea, you know I wrote down all
these ideas and started to compile my thoughts and imagine the conversation we would have around
that.
00:10:05 Brian
Then I went through this huge challenge in my life.
00:10:08 Brian
I go through the surgery.
00:10:09 Brian
It's incredibly challenging, incredibly physically demanding, emotionally demanding, get out of the
hospital and then everything that I thought we were going to talk about.
00:10:19 Brian
Just completely out the window.
00:10:21 Brian
A lot of the things shifted in terms of how I saw hope and what I wanted to see happen in my life.
00:10:28 Brian
We always think.
00:10:28 Brian
We know a little bit about the world and you know, we have this idea.
00:10:32 Brian
Yeah of OK, like I've already learned this and now I can move on to the next thing, but I think what's
really interesting about life in my experience is you're constantly reevaluating and you're constantly
learning new things and what you thought you knew yesterday can easily be replaced by something, and
there were moments where I was literally looking for something to.
00:10:52 Brian
Give me hope, you know I had been just through this tremendous experience and it took its toll and you
start looking for reasons to want to push through and to get over that hump.
00:11:06 Brian
You know, it's like, what does this say about me?
00:11:08 Brian
Like am I just someone who's not tough that's not able to get through this?
00:11:11 Brian
And then you think, Oh no, this is just really difficult, and I think that's an important lesson that I had to
kind of teach myself.
00:11:17 Brian
As you know, it's not about being.
00:11:19 Brian
Tough or it's not about?
00:11:20 Brian
You know, being someone who can grind through it, it's about finding things that give you hope and
focusing on that and keeping your attention on the good stuff and the reasons to live and the reasons to
push.
00:11:30 Brian
Through and at the end of the day, you know that that's what got me better.
00:11:35 Brian
It was focusing on the good stuff and what I'm hopeful for or.
00:11:37 Brian
Not trying not to get dragged on the pain or.
00:11:41 Brian
All the challenges that were coming along with the surgery.
00:11:44 Brian
If I didn't have this experience.
00:11:46 Brian
I might not have had that outlook.
00:11:52 Anthony
I mean, there's no way to really.
00:11:56 Anthony
I guess I understand exactly what it would be like to be.
00:12:00 Anthony
In your shoes.
00:12:02 Anthony
From my perspective.
00:12:04 Anthony
But being your friend, and as somebody who's.
00:12:09 Anthony
Talking to you like very regularly.
00:12:12 Anthony
You know for this podcast.
00:12:15 Anthony
Going into the hope for a community aspect.
00:12:19 Anthony
I feel like this brings me to the fact that hope is so deeply ingrained in us.
00:12:24 Anthony
That just having a friend who.
00:12:27 Anthony
Was going through these challenges.
00:12:31 Anthony
Didn't really hit me at first, like I was sad.
00:12:35 Anthony
And it's it's scary because.
00:12:38 Anthony
I think hope is directly correlated to the future and in a way we take for granted.
00:12:45 Anthony
The fact that people can.
00:12:48 Anthony
You know that there's impermanence.
00:12:50 Anthony
That like.
00:12:52 Anthony
We kind of expect people to be there in the future.
00:12:56 Anthony
And that's the hopefulness that we have.
00:12:58 Anthony
And so it really hit me when I finally got on zoom with Brian the other day for the first time in a while.
00:13:05 Anthony
And I was sitting there with him after he, you know, just was finally better and.
00:13:10 Anthony
Able to at least.
00:13:11 Anthony
Jump on a zoom call with me.
00:13:14 Anthony
And I realized.
00:13:16 Anthony
Like every moment that you enjoy with somebody.
00:13:19 Anthony
There's that hope that you're going to be able to do that again, like that's.
00:13:24 Anthony
I think that's in the nature of relationships that, like we're hopeful every time we.
00:13:30 Anthony
Like deep inside of us, we're hopeful every time that we see somebody that.
00:13:35 Anthony
We're going to be able to have a similar interaction with that person again, like your family.
00:13:40 Anthony
You're hopeful that.
00:13:41 Anthony
When you go to work every day.
00:13:44 Anthony
You come back to them there.
00:13:46 Anthony
I think a lot of this might just stem.
00:13:48 Anthony
From the fact that we're.
00:13:50 Anthony
We're mortal.
00:13:51 Anthony
And that was really just served to me on a platter.
00:13:55 Anthony
When I finally was able to jump on, zoom again with Brian.
00:13:59 Anthony
And we've been meeting regularly for a long periods of time, and I'm like, you know, that might not
actually.
00:14:08 Anthony
That's not always going to be there like you're not always 100% sure. I think that's where like the core.
00:14:15 Anthony
Of that hopefulness comes from in life, and that that goes for everything.
00:14:21 Brian
Yeah, I mean thank you for sharing.
00:14:23 Brian
All that, that's, uh.
00:14:25 Brian
Yeah, I think we both had a nice exchange there of feeling like an overwhelming feeling of joy and just
reconnecting after what had been about a month of, you know, not not really.
00:14:34 Brian
Touching base through more than just text.
00:14:37 Brian
But yeah, it's funny when you talk about like the community and having people.
00:14:42 Brian
I don't know how people get through challenges without incredible support systems, and you know, I'm
just so fortunate and what it's actually done.
00:14:51 Brian
For me it's kind of galvanized me to find a way to give back and you know, for the people that maybe
don't have hope and are having a hard time finding it.
00:14:59 Brian
You know, going in, volunteering and doing things like that.
00:15:03 Brian
I'm not in a place at this moment where I can get out and do it at this second, but hopefully in a month
or two.
00:15:09 Brian
I can find a way to get out there and try to connect with people, and even if I'm there only community
for half hour hour at a time.
00:15:17 Brian
You know it's a goal of mine to recommit to just being there for people and providing them even a sliver
of hope and reason.
00:15:25 Brian
Maybe a tiny reason to keep going in the face of challenge.
00:15:30 Anthony
Bringing it back here, tying it all together with that question.
00:15:33 Anthony
Why would anyone not have hope?
00:15:35 Anthony
I think we.
00:15:36 Anthony
Kind of answer that is that hope actually is very dependent on the people in your life.
00:15:43 Anthony
And it's that community that is around you and.
00:15:46 Anthony
All the little pieces.
00:15:48 Anthony
The puzzle pieces that put together your life.
00:15:51 Anthony
I think inherently you just hope.
00:15:54 Anthony
That they will be there in the future.
00:15:56 Anthony
And so, in a way, I think that's kind of why.
00:15:58 Anthony
Maybe somebody wouldn't have hope is maybe they don't have those.
00:16:03 Anthony
Deeper connections with people around them that community, like you said that support system that
was one of the things that gave you hope in this through this challenge.
00:16:13 Anthony
Of going through these surgeries and cancer.
00:16:17 Anthony
And so my question kind of going off of that is can we use positivity?
00:16:24 Anthony
To cultivate hope.
00:16:27 Brian
Yeah, I think the.
00:16:31 Brian
The hard part here right is like if we see this as zero to 100.
00:16:36 Brian
I have 0 hope or you know I.
00:16:37 Brian
Am full of hope and hope abounds, and I'm.
00:16:40 Brian
Out of the other side of the.
00:16:41 Brian
Scale, you know, the question isn't so much.
00:16:44 Brian
What do you do at the 50 and above?
00:16:46 Brian
It's what.
00:16:46 Brian
Do you do when you're below that?
00:16:47 Brian
Threshold and you're struggling, and I think there's probably a lot of ways to cultivate that hope with
community, it doesn't necessarily need to be.
00:16:55 Brian
You know what you might think of traditional family and friends
00:16:59 Brian
Uhm, you know for me personally, I've done coaching in the past and you know, I'm a teacher so.
00:17:05 Brian
Getting back to that community and where people you know, we all support each other and we have a
great community there like that's another piece, right?
00:17:13 Brian
And there's a lot of me that wanted to get back to being that type of.
00:17:16 Brian
Person, so maybe you do some things in your life that are outside of you know, maybe your work isn't
like that, maybe of other things that you can do where you're involved in like a rec team you play, you
know volleyball at the rec center or something like that.
00:17:32 Brian
You have other communities and you find other ways of building bridges.
00:17:35 Brian
You're in a book club.
00:17:36 Brian
Simple, simple.
00:17:37 Brian
Things like that if it's not inherent and you know someone who's blessed to have certain things, perhaps
you find ways to cultivate those communities and you find ways to build those frameworks.
00:17:49 Brian
Something like that could be really helpful.
00:17:51 Anthony
I think, yeah, community is definitely.
00:17:55 Anthony
Definitely a part of having that hope, but looking at the overlap of positivity and hope.
00:18:02 Anthony
I mean, I can see how if you feel like you don't have a community you can feel lonely and it can feel you
can feel hopeless, you can.
00:18:11 Anthony
You can feel hopeless if you don't feel recognized.
00:18:14 Anthony
If you don't feel supported.
00:18:16 Anthony
If you feel diminished then what you'll have control over may not be that emotion of hope, but your
attitude is something that you can always change.
00:18:27 Anthony
And so I'm wondering in what ways can positivity start to build those bridges and maybe what would be
an example of how shifting to a positive mindset can start building in the right direction?
00:18:41 Brian
I'd love to hear some of your thoughts on this one.
00:18:45 Anthony
I think.
00:18:46 Anthony
If somebody is at the point where they feel hopeless.
00:18:50 Anthony
It's probably because they lack a support system, I would say, because we've kind of identified.
00:18:57 Anthony
Hope as this community and.
00:19:00 Anthony
This forward looking hopefulness for the people in your life and I guess the pieces in your life.
00:19:05 Anthony
You kind of extrapolated on that by saying that it.
00:19:08 Anthony
Could be any form and any kind of.
00:19:11 Anthony
Different little group or community you you know sports team or a book club but generally goes to
having some sort of people in your life that you can kind of be hopeful for.
00:19:23 Anthony
And I think if you're somebody who is hopeless.
00:19:28 Anthony
Can be attributed maybe to not feeling like you have that support system, which makes it even harder.
00:19:35 Anthony
To get into that positive mindset.
00:19:38 Anthony
So I think.
00:19:39 Anthony
The best way to cultivate a positive mindset in order to cultivate that hope would be to seek solitude
and I guess.
00:19:49 Anthony
Create your own community in a sense, maybe choose what you're digesting your intellectual habits.
00:19:58 Anthony
Maybe choosing to read certain books.
00:20:01 Anthony
That can sort of cultivate that community for yourself, even though you won't have those direct
connections.
00:20:07 Anthony
I think maybe you could start to build a more positive mindset.
00:20:12 Anthony
And start moving in the right direction where you can I guess.
00:20:14 Anthony
Get that self esteem and.
00:20:18 Anthony
Move towards building some connections and separating yourself if you're in a situation where you.
00:20:24 Anthony
Maybe don't have healthy relationships.
00:20:28 Anthony
I think solitude and reflection and finding positive influences is the best way to start cultivating that.
00:20:36 Brian
Interesting, yeah, like what you said about solitude and cultivating hope within oneself and creating
community within oneself.
00:20:44 Brian
I think about monks who sit in solitude for long periods of time.
00:20:50 Brian
And, you know, there's a difference between being alone and feeling lonely and.
00:20:56 Brian
It's one thing to be.
00:20:58 Brian
Alone, but feel OK with that and it's another one to be alone and to feel alone to feel lonely.
00:21:05 Brian
So yeah, separating those out and developing some compassion for yourself and some love for yourself
and being OK with who you are and where you are.
00:21:20 Brian
And whether that's in your relationships, whether that's in life or you know.
00:21:24 Brian
We talk about career a lot on here.
00:21:26 Brian
But just kind of the acceptance piece and being OK with what is can certainly change the dynamic where
you're not going from a place of I don't have enough or I don't have what I want, but you know, you're
going from a place of I'm just grateful and look at all I have.
00:21:40 Brian
I have more than I could ever more than I.
00:21:43 Brian
Could ever need versus, you know.
00:21:45 Brian
I don't have friends.
00:21:46 Brian
I don't have support systems.
00:21:48 Brian
I don't have the job I want.
00:21:49 Brian
I don't have you.
00:21:50 Brian
Know whatever it might be.
00:21:52 Brian
And it's really interesting.
00:21:53 Anthony
Yeah, that's a beautiful connection there.
00:21:56 Anthony
I think that takes us right into like.
00:21:58 Anthony
If you can find that solitude and cultivate your own community.
00:22:03 Anthony
Or, you know, if you're feeling that hopelessness, I think just starting a gratitude journal and.
00:22:10 Anthony
Finding those things that you can really appreciate.
00:22:14 Anthony
How do you think that can help someone find hope like starting?
00:22:17 Brian
Man, I've had.
00:22:18 Brian
Yeah, I've had some really difficult points in my life over the past ten years and really low lows and
gratitude journal.
00:22:25 Brian
When I look back is actually one of the.
00:22:27 Brian
Things as simple as it is that really kept me afloat when things were dark.
00:22:32 Brian
You know, finding three things a day or picking one thing that made my day great.
00:22:36 Brian
I used this app called the Five Minute Journal and just every day you'd fill out the prompts and it's very
short.
00:22:43 Brian
Takes less than five minutes, and those are some of the things that.
00:22:47 Brian
Kept me, you know my head above water when things seemed like everything was overwhelming.
00:22:51 Brian
Just those few things.
00:22:55 Anthony
Yeah, you know, I think that takes back into.
00:22:57 Anthony
We've been very future oriented.
00:22:59 Anthony
Because I think Hope is a forward looking thing, but just taking taking a look at the present.
00:23:06 Anthony
And realizing in the worst storm if you can find something that makes you happy or you can be grateful
for.
00:23:13 Anthony
In a way, I think that immediately cultivates hope because.
00:23:17 Anthony
At that moment, you might feel like it's the worst that it could be, but when you find something even in
that moment.
00:23:23 Anthony
That you can feel good about and that you can accept that in here.
00:23:28 Brian
That why?
00:23:29 Anthony
That why it cultivates the hope for the future, 'cause you think if I can be content now?
00:23:36 Anthony
Then there's no reason I can't in the future.
00:23:40 Anthony
So in a way, yeah, the Gratitude Journal would be.
00:23:43 Anthony
An excellent way to cultivate hope.
00:23:47 Brian
Interesting, do you do journal and have a gratitude piece to your journal?
00:23:53 Anthony
I do, I do journal, I think.
00:23:56 Anthony
I don't consistently.
00:23:59 Anthony
Have a gratitude journal.
00:24:02 Anthony
But I have made it a regular practice to just be grateful in my everyday life.
00:24:07 Anthony
I think more and more I.
00:24:10 Anthony
I think it's a positive feedback loop.
00:24:12 Anthony
The more I'm grateful for the people.
00:24:14 Anthony
Around me, I think it creates.
00:24:17 Anthony
Like a positive synergy and the more positive the relationship, I think the more grateful you become, and
I think the more grateful I become like the happier I am and the more grateful I am.
00:24:28 Anthony
It's a positive feedback loop of.
00:24:31 Anthony
Which hopefully creates a ripple effect.
00:24:35 Anthony
So let's jump into a quick question for the audience.
00:24:39 Brian
Yeah, for the listeners.
00:24:41 Brian
What are some tools in your toolbox that bring you to a place of hope, gratitude and optimism?
00:24:52 Brian
What about you Tony?
00:24:52 Brian
What are some of their tools in your toolbox that bring into a place of hope, gratitude and optimism?
00:24:59 Anthony
So along with the Gratitude journal.
00:25:03 Anthony
I feel like one of the things that really helps me when I'm journaling is asking myself questions.
00:25:09 Anthony
I think asking yourself the difficult questions and to really.
00:25:14 Anthony
Take the opposite approach to your own view and try and get out of that sense of self.
00:25:21 Anthony
I think when you do that.
00:25:23 Anthony
It helps cultivate hopefulness because you can see that sometimes you get caught up in your own ideas
and you get caught up.
00:25:31 Anthony
And a lot of the insignificant things that just don't really matter.
00:25:35 Anthony
And the more of those trivial matters that you.
00:25:39 Anthony
Can let go.
00:25:40 Anthony
The more you can focus on the important things that you can be optimistic, grateful.
00:25:46 Anthony
Which then cultivates the hopefulness.
00:25:49 Brian
Interesting, so are there any tools that you like to use for that?
00:25:53 Brian
Any specific programs or meditation or?
00:25:56 Brian
Anything like that?
00:25:59 Anthony
I think just questioning everything.
00:26:01 Anthony
I think that's really and that can be difficult to do.
00:26:04 Anthony
I think finding the right questions is is critical.
00:26:09 Anthony
We do have reflective questions on the EGO Lab website where you can go through there and find some
of the hard questions that you can ask yourself to.
00:26:18 Anthony
Kind of just give yourself that paradigm shift or just set yourself up for a new framework.
00:26:25 Anthony
Which I think is the bottom line, if you can change the framework then you can cultivate the attitude
and the hopefulness that you need.
00:26:34 Brian
Yeah, there's a really interesting concept of you know what makes your reality come to life and you have
these thoughts and your thoughts become patterns that you continually act out in the world.
00:26:46 Brian
And then those patterns that you act out in.
00:26:48 Brian
The world become your habits.
00:26:50 Brian
And those habits kind of reinforce back to the original.
00:26:54 Brian
You know, the loop of this is who I am and you start telling yourself those stories in that pattern.
00:26:59 Brian
So putting something like you said in the middle of that loop just to break it up so you're not just
continually telling yourself stories that become habits and circle around that could be a really effective
tool.
00:27:12 Anthony
Yeah, I like the focus on tools, which makes me question.
00:27:17 Anthony
Do you think that some people are just naturally born as just like super optimistic, super grateful and
some people are just born to be sad and less hopeful and more depressed?
00:27:31 Anthony
What do you think is is the balance there and
00:27:35 Anthony
Does everybody learn to be hopeful?
00:27:37 Anthony
What do you think?
00:27:38 Brian
I think that there's probably some threshold of what people are capable of doing, right.
00:27:45 Brian
We're all built different biologically.
00:27:47 Brian
We all have different upbringings.
00:27:48 Brian
We all have different surroundings and factors and supports that come.
00:27:51 Brian
Into play here.
00:27:52 Brian
So I think there's some limiting factors and some factors that can open.
00:27:56 Brian
This up for people.
00:27:58 Brian
There's some levers you can pull, and some you can't.
00:28:00 Brian
You know you can't control what you did from your zero to 20, you know, but you can maybe control
the next year of your life, so I think it's probably true that there's some physiological components.
00:28:13 Brian
You mentioned depression, right?
00:28:15 Brian
A whole lot of science out there that suggests there's a biological component to that, I.
00:28:21 Brian
I would think that there's tools you can use in that space.
00:28:24 Brian
I know you've got some ideas on.
00:28:25 Brian
This I'd love to hear.
00:28:27 Anthony
Yeah, so I recently read this book.
00:28:30 Anthony
Great book.
00:28:31 Anthony
The happiness hypothesis by Jonathan Haidt and he goes into this and he he basically says that.
00:28:39 Anthony
Your happiness and your outlook is to some extent, predetermined, almost like a thermostat, and that
everybody has a biological range that they're within. So maybe your setpoint is like 56 degrees, which
then you would be a very.
00:29:00 Anthony
Or more sad person, but your range could maybe go up to 75 degrees, so by choosing to do these things
like meditation and gratitude journals and reflectiveness.
00:29:14 Anthony
And creating the right environment for yourself. All the things that you can control, you can get to the
top end of that range, maybe at 74 degrees.
00:29:23 Anthony
And then some people maybe have a higher range at naturally just determined by genetics and maybe
the lower end of their range is like 70 degrees and it goes.
00:29:35 Anthony
Up to 82.
00:29:37 Anthony
So that's kind of the example that.
00:29:41 Anthony
Jonathan Haidt brings up in this book, which I think is a very interesting one, and I think.
00:29:45 Anthony
It makes a lot of sense.
00:29:48 Brian
I think there's a lot of value in that, and the idea of there being a range to this because you could easily
get stuck in saying I'm just the type of person who's 56 on the happiness thermostat, when in reality
once you start to open up the idea that you could be someone who can be 20 degrees, you know
warmer, jolly or whatever Jonathan is trying to use that analogy to come across with.
00:30:08 Brian
That is, the game changer.
00:30:10 Brian
Is that OK?
00:30:10 Brian
Now there's some levers to pull.
00:30:12 Brian
You know, there's some ways to modify that, and to make me a happier person or the person that I'd
like to see.
00:30:19 Anthony
Absolutely, and I think one of the amazing things that he brings up in this book is that your attitude can
actually impact your brain so much that it can affect the serotonin receptors in your mind.
00:30:32 Anthony
And you can actually damage them with a negative outlook, and then once you do that, obviously it's
not like you think.
00:30:39 Anthony
Bad thoughts and your serotonin receptors are gone.
00:30:42 Anthony
But some of the balancing mechanisms can get damaged, which which can be fixed in through cognitive
therapy and antidepressants.
00:30:51 Brian
That's according to Jonathan.
00:30:53 Anthony
According to Jonathan, of course I don't claim any of this to be fact, but this is his.
00:30:57 Anthony
Hypothesis.
00:30:59 Anthony
I do think it's interesting that that some studies show.
00:31:04 Anthony
I mean, of course always hesitant to make any sort of definitive claim, but your mindset absolutely does
affect your general level.
00:31:13 Anthony
Happiness and I think that's kind of the interesting thing here.
00:31:17 Anthony
So we talked.
00:31:18 Anthony
About some of the tools to cultivate optimism and how communities cultivate hope.
00:31:26 Anthony
I know you and I both Brian are fans of the book ikigai.
00:31:31 Anthony
And so I'm wondering, do you do optimistic people live longer?
00:31:37 Brian
So one of the.
00:31:38 Brian
Greatest predictors of longevity in life is just being part of communities and being connected to others.
00:31:43 Brian
In the book Ikigai, they talk about the Okinawans and in the Okinawan culture, that's one of the major
things that's a part of their culture is being a part of that community, and it's one of the reasons in
addition to other things.
00:31:56 Brian
But one of the main reasons.
00:31:57 Brian
Why they do live longer.
00:32:00 Anthony
Basically Okinawa.
00:32:02 Anthony
Has this exaggerated amount of supercentenarians. Which is, I believe, people who live over 110.
00:32:10 Brian
It's just 100, no?
00:32:12 Anthony
Centenarian is 100. Supercentenarian is 110.
00:32:15 Brian
Oh, super centenarian.
00:32:17 Brian
I don't know that was.
00:32:17 Anthony
Yeah, super centenarian. So like over 110.
00:32:22 Anthony
Which is like.
00:32:22 Anthony
A ridiculously long time to live, and when the author examines.
00:32:28 Anthony
These people and their lifestyle.
00:32:30 Anthony
He basically attributes it to three things.
00:32:33 Anthony
One was nutrition.
00:32:36 Anthony
Because they all had a very specific like home grown garden diets at least mostly on this island and the
other was community, which is kind of what we're talking about.
00:32:47 Anthony
With hope like these tight communities and the third one was basically like purpose and like a life
passion.
00:32:54 Anthony
So I do think.
00:32:55 Anthony
That hope kind of overlaps with both passion and community, which is two of the three most critical
factors for this optimist.
00:33:05 Anthony
This how these optimistic people live longer.
00:33:10 Brian
Yeah, so there's.
00:33:10 Brian
2 components to longevity.
00:33:12 Brian
There's how long you live, and then there's the quality of that life.
00:33:16 Brian
And what's really interesting.
00:33:19 Brian
That you talk about is all these components that come together to make life worth living.
00:33:24 Brian
And it's not that nutrition and exercise aren't important.
00:33:26 Brian
They're just components to that bigger picture.
00:33:30 Anthony
Yeah, that's very well said I.
00:33:32 Anthony
I think.
00:33:33 Anthony
It's not that we're saying that.
00:33:35 Anthony
Living longer is the goal.
00:33:37 Anthony
However, I think that's just the consequence of living a more meaningful life.
00:33:43 Anthony
People, for whatever reason.
00:33:45 Anthony
I guess they live longer having that quality.
00:33:48 Anthony
Just leads to longevity, which I think even more so shows the importance of getting that right framework
and really just deciding with intention, like how you.
00:34:00 Anthony
Want to live your life.
00:34:02 Brian
We hear you know, we're sitting here and talking about the importance of having a good mindset, the
importance of being optimistic and hopeful.
00:34:08 Brian
But what about the people who don't want to hear that?
00:34:10 Brian
What about the people who are like I've been told that a million times?
00:34:14 Anthony
What I think you can do is accept that sometimes life is just.
00:34:18 Anthony
Going to suck.
00:34:20 Anthony
Like it's not always going to be.
00:34:21 Anthony
Great, and sometimes it's really hard to build these habits.
00:34:27 Anthony
But I do think that you have to try.
00:34:31 Anthony
Like you can't give up, I think just don't give up.
00:34:34 Anthony
And before you know it, even if you just do one thing every day that eventually over time you won't
even realize it, you won't see the changes.
00:34:44 Anthony
The switch will flip eventually and I think you just.
00:34:47 Anthony
Have to hope.
00:34:48 Anthony
And recognize that down the line it will be different.
00:34:52 Anthony
You have no idea where you'll be one year.
00:34:55 Anthony
From now, two years from now, three years from now, let alone 10 years from now.
00:35:00 Anthony
And maybe consider how much you've changed just in the past two or three years.
00:35:04 Anthony
Think about where you were three years ago and.
00:35:08 Anthony
Give yourself some credit for how far you've come.
00:35:10 Anthony
And don't underestimate how far you will go.
00:35:14 Brian
Yeah, very good.
00:35:15 Brian
I think we get into this habit of comparing ourselves to other people and kind of what you alluded to.
00:35:20 Brian
It's much more helpful to compare yourself to yourself and to see your growth and not to worry about.
00:35:25 Brian
All these external forces.
00:35:27 Brian
But just to.
00:35:28 Brian
Appreciate how far you've come in your journey and allow that to be kind of a beacon of hope for the
future.
00:35:34 Brian
You know, see where that all the growth in the past where it leads to the future.
00:35:38 Anthony
I love it.
00:35:40 Anthony
That's a great place to end.
00:35:42 Anthony
And just one last question for the audience, what's one thing that you can be proud of in the past couple
years?
00:35:50 Anthony
That can make you.
00:35:50 Anthony
Feel hopeful for the future.
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