Hope - Ep. 4 Transcript

00:00:00 Anthony

Hello everybody, welcome to the Ego Lab podcast.

00:00:03 Anthony

I'm Tony.

00:00:04 Brian

And I'm Brian.

00:00:05 Anthony

Today's topic is hope.

00:00:07 Anthony

In our last episode we talked about how to cope with failures and how to grow from them.

00:00:12 Anthony

In this episode, we're going to take a look at the other side of the coin.

00:00:16 Anthony

How do you optimize hope so you can focus on things in your life that bring you joy.

00:00:21 Brian

All right, Tony, let's kick it off with a.

00:00:23 Brian

Short quote.

00:00:24 Brian

It's the possibility.

00:00:25 Brian

Of having a dream come true that makes life interesting.

00:00:28 Brian

Paulo Coelho.

00:00:31 Anthony

So Brian, why would?

00:00:32 Anthony

We want to spend any time discussing hope.

00:00:35 Brian

So when you look at life you have all these moments that require you to bring your a game or you know

to get through them and it's the hope of the things that can go right, or that can change your life for the

better or that can inspire you that really make life worth living.

00:00:49 Anthony

Yeah, for some reason Hope takes this very.

00:00:54 Anthony

specific.

00:00:56 Anthony

In my heart I I think I associate it with like all the deeply.

00:01:01 Anthony

Emotional things.

00:01:04 Anthony

Which I'm not sure.

00:01:04 Anthony

Why that is, but I do think that there's.

00:01:07 Anthony

a big difference between optimism and hope in that way.

00:01:12 Anthony

Like I think hope is more of maybe an emotion and optimism is more of a mindset or a choice even.

00:01:22 Brian

Interesting, yeah.

00:01:23 Brian

I was just listening to this book called the Book of Joy with the Dalai Lama and Archbishop Desmond

Tutu and the.

00:01:31 Brian

The book is kind of based on their interviews together and in the book they talk about.

00:01:34 Brian

The juxtaposition of you know is hope and optimism or hope and optimism the same.

00:01:39 Brian

Thing and then the Archbishop was saying they're not and hope is like a deep core.

00:01:46 Brian

Part of what makes people want to continue to to live in times of struggle and to grow and to pursue

greater challenges.

00:01:52 Brian

And you can have this emotional piece of.

00:01:55 Brian

In the moment, being optimistic, but it's the hope deep down in your soul, your spirit that makes you

want to get to that next level and keep going.

00:02:03 Brian

And when things get tough, it's the that deep hope that pushes people.

00:02:07 Anthony

Yeah, right off the bat.

00:02:09 Anthony

I mean, you're immediately taking me to man search for meaning with Viktor Frankel.

00:02:14 Anthony

The hope.

00:02:15 Anthony

That just being in the most dire and.

00:02:19 Anthony

And most challenging situations, you just see this this vibrant hope.

00:02:25 Anthony

And that's what that's what helps people hang on.

00:02:29 Anthony

That's what helps people get through any of the deepest struggles.

00:02:31 Anthony

This hope in this.

00:02:33 Anthony

This deeper connection to life.

00:02:37 Anthony

I would say in this.

00:02:39 Anthony

Search for.

00:02:41 Anthony

Meaningfulness, which I guess is exactly.

00:02:45 Anthony

The title of the book.

00:02:46 Brian

Yeah, Viktor Frankel talks about anyone who has a why can survive any how.

00:02:52 Anthony

It's almost like the why.

00:02:55 Anthony

Just exists in the future.

00:02:57 Anthony

That's kind of what it seems like to me.

00:02:59 Anthony

Like you don't need to know the why.

00:03:04 Anthony

But it is there because you know there is a future.

00:03:08 Anthony

Which thus makes you hopeful.

00:03:10 Brian

I think when we talk about everyone, why it it might be different.

00:03:15 Brian

It's not necessarily.

00:03:17 Brian

A goal of I need to get to a certain place at this year Y could be a person could be your family doesn't

necessarily have to be some arbitrary thing.

00:03:26 Brian

You can kind of move along throughout life.

00:03:29 Brian

It could be something very simple.

00:03:31 Anthony

Yeah, I love it.

00:03:33 Brian

So Tony is there a placebo effect for optimism and hope?

00:03:37 Brian

And do you think believing you're going to do better actually makes you do better?

00:03:42 Anthony

You know, I absolutely think there is a placebo effect for optimism and hope.

00:03:48 Anthony

I actually I've heard a couple of great anecdotes about this.

00:03:52 Anthony

There's just one story about.

00:03:55 Anthony

A kid and he's failing miserably throughout his high school career and eventually it comes around college

time and he has to take this SAT Test and so he goes in and he gets the letter in the mail and he got.

00:04:11 Anthony

A great score.

00:04:13 Anthony

Even though he was just a terrible student and so his mother asked him.

00:04:17 Anthony

Did you cheat?

00:04:19 Anthony

No, I swear.

00:04:20 Anthony

I tried to cheat.

00:04:21 Anthony

I couldn't see over the Scantron.

00:04:23 Anthony

It didn't make sense. I didn't cheat, I swear. So the kid starts thinking he got this 1480 and he goes on.

He he starts showing up to class in college.

00:04:34 Anthony

He starts his own business and he becomes a successful magazine entrepreneur seven years later.

00:04:41 Anthony

After he's a successful entrepreneur and he gets a letter in the mail from Princeton and they say to him,

yeah, you were one of the few tests that actually got sent the wrong score.

00:04:53 Anthony

The message of the story here is that he wasn't any smarter.

00:04:57 Anthony

He just started believing that he was smarter.

00:05:00 Anthony

This is directly a placebo effect for optimism and for hope.

00:05:04 Anthony

He started to believe that he was smart and he could actually accomplish things and he started acting

that way.

00:05:10 Anthony

So I do think that there is a placebo effect.

00:05:13 Anthony

If you believe in yourself.

00:05:15 Anthony

Then in turn, that can be a causation to the actions that lead to making you a better person and doing

better in life.

00:05:24 Brian

For sure, yeah.

00:05:25 Brian

I love that story.

00:05:25 Brian

There's so many good messages in there.

00:05:27 Brian

I actually had a similar experience senior year.

00:05:29 Brian

I started to do a little bit better in high school and I was like, yeah, maybe you know I'm better than the

B or C student.

00:05:35 Brian

I've been.

00:05:35 Brian

Maybe I have potential.

00:05:36 Brian

Being a student, if I put my mind to it the first day I walked onto my college campus and I just had this

experience of wow these next four years.

00:05:43 Brian

Like it's time to turn it up, let's see what I can do.

00:05:46 Brian

I believe in myself.

00:05:47 Brian

I'm going to make this a different experience and maybe I'm not a straight A.

00:05:49 Brian

Student, but I'm going to do my best.

00:05:51 Brian

And I came pretty close to to achieving that.

00:05:54 Brian

It can happen to you by accident or you can make the conscious decision that I'm going.

00:05:58 Brian

To select a thought.

00:06:00 Brian

Pattern and I'm going to stick with that and I'm going to try to bring that into reality.

00:06:04 Brian

Maybe I haven't been a certain person in the past, but now I am.

00:06:08 Brian

I'm making this decision and yeah, that can certainly give you hope.

00:06:11 Anthony

Yeah, you brought in kind of values and identity here which we talked a lot about in our last episode, but

it makes me curious.

00:06:20 Anthony

Do you think that hope

00:06:23 Anthony

Is that something that's strictly a personal thing, like your own identity and your own values, or is hope

something that is also

00:06:32 Anthony

A community thing, something that's shared with other people?

00:06:36 Brian

Absolutely, it's a community thing.

00:06:38 Brian

I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.

00:06:40 Anthony

I guess inherently because we're human beings and we all have similar emotions, and because hope, I

think, is such a powerful and deep emotion inherently that is a shared experience.

00:06:54 Anthony

I do kind of feel like I have an unclear.

00:06:58 Anthony

Grasp on on hope and I think this discussion is really helping actually.

00:07:02 Brian

So I just had this experience last year.

00:07:05 Brian

I was diagnosed with cancer.

00:07:07 Brian

Kind of fighting my way through that.

00:07:09 Brian

I just had surgery recently, but it was challenging and there were moments that you know the pain was

off the charts and my body was compromised and I was just everything was a challenge about the whole

process and you started looking.

00:07:22 Brian

You know, in those moments where everything feels.

00:07:24 Brian

Like the world?

00:07:25 Brian

Is crashing down and I and I was dealt.

00:07:27 Brian

This hand you know which is completely out of my control, and here I am having to literally fight for my

life and.

00:07:34 Brian

You know in that moment you start looking around for things and reasons and you try to find your why

and it's just a visceral experience of looking for that hope.

00:07:43 Brian

And it's definitely goes beyond emotions.

00:07:45 Brian

It's like ties into the will to live in my experience.

00:07:49 Brian

And and yeah, it it's.

00:07:52 Brian

I think we talked in an earlier podcast about intellectualizing things and trying to, you know, we could sit

here and talk about the idea of hope.

00:07:59 Brian

And it's another just to experience that hope.

00:08:01 Brian

And to you know, when things are at their darkest, and you find that hope and you latch onto it and you

use that as a will to keep going on.

00:08:10 Brian

You know that that's totally different than a conceptual idea of hope.

00:08:15 Anthony

I'm with you.

00:08:17 Anthony

Part of that is just Emotions. I guess you

00:08:22 Anthony

Can't really, I guess you can't really get your hand on them.

00:08:26 Anthony

It's more, it's an experience.

00:08:28 Anthony

You know it's it's touching to think that.

00:08:31 Anthony

When you go through something so severe.

00:08:34 Anthony

You get a grasp on something that can just be.

00:08:38 Anthony

Life changing.

00:08:40 Brian

Yeah, it's those moments where you know you can plan all you want to plan, but sometimes life has a

different idea for your plan and you know when you when you get met with those challenges.

00:08:52 Brian

How do you respond and oftentimes it's not even a choice you know?

00:08:56 Brian

You don't necessarily.

00:08:57 Brian

Choose to be hopeful in those really difficult moments.

00:09:00 Brian

That's the only choice.

00:09:01 Brian

You just do it.

00:09:03 Anthony

So what do you think would make somebody lose hope?

00:09:07 Anthony

Why would anyone not have hope?

00:09:12 Brian

You know, I'm fortunate.

00:09:14 Brian

I have a great support system around me as I've gone through this challenge over the past year.

00:09:18 Brian

Touching back on your idea of hope being a community thing.

00:09:22 Brian

I think support systems can be.

00:09:25 Brian

Critical in times where you might be lacking hope so for people who might be lacking hope.

00:09:30 Brian

Perhaps they're lacking some of these other pieces.

00:09:33 Anthony

Let's reel that back into.

00:09:36 Anthony

The overlap between positivity and hope.

00:09:39 Anthony

So in a way, in mindset is a choice.

00:09:44 Anthony

Can you choose to be hopeful by framing your mind in a positive way?

00:09:49 Anthony

Does that cause more hope?

00:09:53 Brian

Yeah, so when we had first discussed talking about hope as a podcast idea, you know I wrote down all

these ideas and started to compile my thoughts and imagine the conversation we would have around

that.

00:10:05 Brian

Then I went through this huge challenge in my life.

00:10:08 Brian

I go through the surgery.

00:10:09 Brian

It's incredibly challenging, incredibly physically demanding, emotionally demanding, get out of the

hospital and then everything that I thought we were going to talk about.

00:10:19 Brian

Just completely out the window.

00:10:21 Brian

A lot of the things shifted in terms of how I saw hope and what I wanted to see happen in my life.

00:10:28 Brian

We always think.

00:10:28 Brian

We know a little bit about the world and you know, we have this idea.

00:10:32 Brian

Yeah of OK, like I've already learned this and now I can move on to the next thing, but I think what's

really interesting about life in my experience is you're constantly reevaluating and you're constantly

learning new things and what you thought you knew yesterday can easily be replaced by something, and

there were moments where I was literally looking for something to.

00:10:52 Brian

Give me hope, you know I had been just through this tremendous experience and it took its toll and you

start looking for reasons to want to push through and to get over that hump.

00:11:06 Brian

You know, it's like, what does this say about me?

00:11:08 Brian

Like am I just someone who's not tough that's not able to get through this?

00:11:11 Brian

And then you think, Oh no, this is just really difficult, and I think that's an important lesson that I had to

kind of teach myself.

00:11:17 Brian

As you know, it's not about being.

00:11:19 Brian

Tough or it's not about?

00:11:20 Brian

You know, being someone who can grind through it, it's about finding things that give you hope and

focusing on that and keeping your attention on the good stuff and the reasons to live and the reasons to

push.

00:11:30 Brian

Through and at the end of the day, you know that that's what got me better.

00:11:35 Brian

It was focusing on the good stuff and what I'm hopeful for or.

00:11:37 Brian

Not trying not to get dragged on the pain or.

00:11:41 Brian

All the challenges that were coming along with the surgery.

00:11:44 Brian

If I didn't have this experience.

00:11:46 Brian

I might not have had that outlook.

00:11:52 Anthony

I mean, there's no way to really.

00:11:56 Anthony

I guess I understand exactly what it would be like to be.

00:12:00 Anthony

In your shoes.

00:12:02 Anthony

From my perspective.

00:12:04 Anthony

But being your friend, and as somebody who's.

00:12:09 Anthony

Talking to you like very regularly.

00:12:12 Anthony

You know for this podcast.

00:12:15 Anthony

Going into the hope for a community aspect.

00:12:19 Anthony

I feel like this brings me to the fact that hope is so deeply ingrained in us.

00:12:24 Anthony

That just having a friend who.

00:12:27 Anthony

Was going through these challenges.

00:12:31 Anthony

Didn't really hit me at first, like I was sad.

00:12:35 Anthony

And it's it's scary because.

00:12:38 Anthony

I think hope is directly correlated to the future and in a way we take for granted.

00:12:45 Anthony

The fact that people can.

00:12:48 Anthony

You know that there's impermanence.

00:12:50 Anthony

That like.

00:12:52 Anthony

We kind of expect people to be there in the future.

00:12:56 Anthony

And that's the hopefulness that we have.

00:12:58 Anthony

And so it really hit me when I finally got on zoom with Brian the other day for the first time in a while.

00:13:05 Anthony

And I was sitting there with him after he, you know, just was finally better and.

00:13:10 Anthony

Able to at least.

00:13:11 Anthony

Jump on a zoom call with me.

00:13:14 Anthony

And I realized.

00:13:16 Anthony

Like every moment that you enjoy with somebody.

00:13:19 Anthony

There's that hope that you're going to be able to do that again, like that's.

00:13:24 Anthony

I think that's in the nature of relationships that, like we're hopeful every time we.

00:13:30 Anthony

Like deep inside of us, we're hopeful every time that we see somebody that.

00:13:35 Anthony

We're going to be able to have a similar interaction with that person again, like your family.

00:13:40 Anthony

You're hopeful that.

00:13:41 Anthony

When you go to work every day.

00:13:44 Anthony

You come back to them there.

00:13:46 Anthony

I think a lot of this might just stem.

00:13:48 Anthony

From the fact that we're.

00:13:50 Anthony

We're mortal.

00:13:51 Anthony

And that was really just served to me on a platter.

00:13:55 Anthony

When I finally was able to jump on, zoom again with Brian.

00:13:59 Anthony

And we've been meeting regularly for a long periods of time, and I'm like, you know, that might not

actually.

00:14:08 Anthony

That's not always going to be there like you're not always 100% sure. I think that's where like the core.

00:14:15 Anthony

Of that hopefulness comes from in life, and that that goes for everything.

00:14:21 Brian

Yeah, I mean thank you for sharing.

00:14:23 Brian

All that, that's, uh.

00:14:25 Brian

Yeah, I think we both had a nice exchange there of feeling like an overwhelming feeling of joy and just

reconnecting after what had been about a month of, you know, not not really.

00:14:34 Brian

Touching base through more than just text.

00:14:37 Brian

But yeah, it's funny when you talk about like the community and having people.

00:14:42 Brian

I don't know how people get through challenges without incredible support systems, and you know, I'm

just so fortunate and what it's actually done.

00:14:51 Brian

For me it's kind of galvanized me to find a way to give back and you know, for the people that maybe

don't have hope and are having a hard time finding it.

00:14:59 Brian

You know, going in, volunteering and doing things like that.

00:15:03 Brian

I'm not in a place at this moment where I can get out and do it at this second, but hopefully in a month

or two.

00:15:09 Brian

I can find a way to get out there and try to connect with people, and even if I'm there only community

for half hour hour at a time.

00:15:17 Brian

You know it's a goal of mine to recommit to just being there for people and providing them even a sliver

of hope and reason.

00:15:25 Brian

Maybe a tiny reason to keep going in the face of challenge.

00:15:30 Anthony

Bringing it back here, tying it all together with that question.

00:15:33 Anthony

Why would anyone not have hope?

00:15:35 Anthony

I think we.

00:15:36 Anthony

Kind of answer that is that hope actually is very dependent on the people in your life.

00:15:43 Anthony

And it's that community that is around you and.

00:15:46 Anthony

All the little pieces.

00:15:48 Anthony

The puzzle pieces that put together your life.

00:15:51 Anthony

I think inherently you just hope.

00:15:54 Anthony

That they will be there in the future.

00:15:56 Anthony

And so, in a way, I think that's kind of why.

00:15:58 Anthony

Maybe somebody wouldn't have hope is maybe they don't have those.

00:16:03 Anthony

Deeper connections with people around them that community, like you said that support system that

was one of the things that gave you hope in this through this challenge.

00:16:13 Anthony

Of going through these surgeries and cancer.

00:16:17 Anthony

And so my question kind of going off of that is can we use positivity?

00:16:24 Anthony

To cultivate hope.

00:16:27 Brian

Yeah, I think the.

00:16:31 Brian

The hard part here right is like if we see this as zero to 100.

00:16:36 Brian

I have 0 hope or you know I.

00:16:37 Brian

Am full of hope and hope abounds, and I'm.

00:16:40 Brian

Out of the other side of the.

00:16:41 Brian

Scale, you know, the question isn't so much.

00:16:44 Brian

What do you do at the 50 and above?

00:16:46 Brian

It's what.

00:16:46 Brian

Do you do when you're below that?

00:16:47 Brian

Threshold and you're struggling, and I think there's probably a lot of ways to cultivate that hope with

community, it doesn't necessarily need to be.

00:16:55 Brian

You know what you might think of traditional family and friends

00:16:59 Brian

Uhm, you know for me personally, I've done coaching in the past and you know, I'm a teacher so.

00:17:05 Brian

Getting back to that community and where people you know, we all support each other and we have a

great community there like that's another piece, right?

00:17:13 Brian

And there's a lot of me that wanted to get back to being that type of.

00:17:16 Brian

Person, so maybe you do some things in your life that are outside of you know, maybe your work isn't

like that, maybe of other things that you can do where you're involved in like a rec team you play, you

know volleyball at the rec center or something like that.

00:17:32 Brian

You have other communities and you find other ways of building bridges.

00:17:35 Brian

You're in a book club.

00:17:36 Brian

Simple, simple.

00:17:37 Brian

Things like that if it's not inherent and you know someone who's blessed to have certain things, perhaps

you find ways to cultivate those communities and you find ways to build those frameworks.

00:17:49 Brian

Something like that could be really helpful.

00:17:51 Anthony

I think, yeah, community is definitely.

00:17:55 Anthony

Definitely a part of having that hope, but looking at the overlap of positivity and hope.

00:18:02 Anthony

I mean, I can see how if you feel like you don't have a community you can feel lonely and it can feel you

can feel hopeless, you can.

00:18:11 Anthony

You can feel hopeless if you don't feel recognized.

00:18:14 Anthony

If you don't feel supported.

00:18:16 Anthony

If you feel diminished then what you'll have control over may not be that emotion of hope, but your

attitude is something that you can always change.

00:18:27 Anthony

And so I'm wondering in what ways can positivity start to build those bridges and maybe what would be

an example of how shifting to a positive mindset can start building in the right direction?

00:18:41 Brian

I'd love to hear some of your thoughts on this one.

00:18:45 Anthony

I think.

00:18:46 Anthony

If somebody is at the point where they feel hopeless.

00:18:50 Anthony

It's probably because they lack a support system, I would say, because we've kind of identified.

00:18:57 Anthony

Hope as this community and.

00:19:00 Anthony

This forward looking hopefulness for the people in your life and I guess the pieces in your life.

00:19:05 Anthony

You kind of extrapolated on that by saying that it.

00:19:08 Anthony

Could be any form and any kind of.

00:19:11 Anthony

Different little group or community you you know sports team or a book club but generally goes to

having some sort of people in your life that you can kind of be hopeful for.

00:19:23 Anthony

And I think if you're somebody who is hopeless.

00:19:28 Anthony

Can be attributed maybe to not feeling like you have that support system, which makes it even harder.

00:19:35 Anthony

To get into that positive mindset.

00:19:38 Anthony

So I think.

00:19:39 Anthony

The best way to cultivate a positive mindset in order to cultivate that hope would be to seek solitude

and I guess.

00:19:49 Anthony

Create your own community in a sense, maybe choose what you're digesting your intellectual habits.

00:19:58 Anthony

Maybe choosing to read certain books.

00:20:01 Anthony

That can sort of cultivate that community for yourself, even though you won't have those direct

connections.

00:20:07 Anthony

I think maybe you could start to build a more positive mindset.

00:20:12 Anthony

And start moving in the right direction where you can I guess.

00:20:14 Anthony

Get that self esteem and.

00:20:18 Anthony

Move towards building some connections and separating yourself if you're in a situation where you.

00:20:24 Anthony

Maybe don't have healthy relationships.

00:20:28 Anthony

I think solitude and reflection and finding positive influences is the best way to start cultivating that.

00:20:36 Brian

Interesting, yeah, like what you said about solitude and cultivating hope within oneself and creating

community within oneself.

00:20:44 Brian

I think about monks who sit in solitude for long periods of time.

00:20:50 Brian

And, you know, there's a difference between being alone and feeling lonely and.

00:20:56 Brian

It's one thing to be.

00:20:58 Brian

Alone, but feel OK with that and it's another one to be alone and to feel alone to feel lonely.

00:21:05 Brian

So yeah, separating those out and developing some compassion for yourself and some love for yourself

and being OK with who you are and where you are.

00:21:20 Brian

And whether that's in your relationships, whether that's in life or you know.

00:21:24 Brian

We talk about career a lot on here.

00:21:26 Brian

But just kind of the acceptance piece and being OK with what is can certainly change the dynamic where

you're not going from a place of I don't have enough or I don't have what I want, but you know, you're

going from a place of I'm just grateful and look at all I have.

00:21:40 Brian

I have more than I could ever more than I.

00:21:43 Brian

Could ever need versus, you know.

00:21:45 Brian

I don't have friends.

00:21:46 Brian

I don't have support systems.

00:21:48 Brian

I don't have the job I want.

00:21:49 Brian

I don't have you.

00:21:50 Brian

Know whatever it might be.

00:21:52 Brian

And it's really interesting.

00:21:53 Anthony

Yeah, that's a beautiful connection there.

00:21:56 Anthony

I think that takes us right into like.

00:21:58 Anthony

If you can find that solitude and cultivate your own community.

00:22:03 Anthony

Or, you know, if you're feeling that hopelessness, I think just starting a gratitude journal and.

00:22:10 Anthony

Finding those things that you can really appreciate.

00:22:14 Anthony

How do you think that can help someone find hope like starting?

00:22:17 Brian

Man, I've had.

00:22:18 Brian

Yeah, I've had some really difficult points in my life over the past ten years and really low lows and

gratitude journal.

00:22:25 Brian

When I look back is actually one of the.

00:22:27 Brian

Things as simple as it is that really kept me afloat when things were dark.

00:22:32 Brian

You know, finding three things a day or picking one thing that made my day great.

00:22:36 Brian

I used this app called the Five Minute Journal and just every day you'd fill out the prompts and it's very

short.

00:22:43 Brian

Takes less than five minutes, and those are some of the things that.

00:22:47 Brian

Kept me, you know my head above water when things seemed like everything was overwhelming.

00:22:51 Brian

Just those few things.

00:22:55 Anthony

Yeah, you know, I think that takes back into.

00:22:57 Anthony

We've been very future oriented.

00:22:59 Anthony

Because I think Hope is a forward looking thing, but just taking taking a look at the present.

00:23:06 Anthony

And realizing in the worst storm if you can find something that makes you happy or you can be grateful

for.

00:23:13 Anthony

In a way, I think that immediately cultivates hope because.

00:23:17 Anthony

At that moment, you might feel like it's the worst that it could be, but when you find something even in

that moment.

00:23:23 Anthony

That you can feel good about and that you can accept that in here.

00:23:28 Brian

That why?

00:23:29 Anthony

That why it cultivates the hope for the future, 'cause you think if I can be content now?

00:23:36 Anthony

Then there's no reason I can't in the future.

00:23:40 Anthony

So in a way, yeah, the Gratitude Journal would be.

00:23:43 Anthony

An excellent way to cultivate hope.

00:23:47 Brian

Interesting, do you do journal and have a gratitude piece to your journal?

00:23:53 Anthony

I do, I do journal, I think.

00:23:56 Anthony

I don't consistently.

00:23:59 Anthony

Have a gratitude journal.

00:24:02 Anthony

But I have made it a regular practice to just be grateful in my everyday life.

00:24:07 Anthony

I think more and more I.

00:24:10 Anthony

I think it's a positive feedback loop.

00:24:12 Anthony

The more I'm grateful for the people.

00:24:14 Anthony

Around me, I think it creates.

00:24:17 Anthony

Like a positive synergy and the more positive the relationship, I think the more grateful you become, and

I think the more grateful I become like the happier I am and the more grateful I am.

00:24:28 Anthony

It's a positive feedback loop of.

00:24:31 Anthony

Which hopefully creates a ripple effect.

00:24:35 Anthony

So let's jump into a quick question for the audience.

00:24:39 Brian

Yeah, for the listeners.

00:24:41 Brian

What are some tools in your toolbox that bring you to a place of hope, gratitude and optimism?

00:24:52 Brian

What about you Tony?

00:24:52 Brian

What are some of their tools in your toolbox that bring into a place of hope, gratitude and optimism?

00:24:59 Anthony

So along with the Gratitude journal.

00:25:03 Anthony

I feel like one of the things that really helps me when I'm journaling is asking myself questions.

00:25:09 Anthony

I think asking yourself the difficult questions and to really.

00:25:14 Anthony

Take the opposite approach to your own view and try and get out of that sense of self.

00:25:21 Anthony

I think when you do that.

00:25:23 Anthony

It helps cultivate hopefulness because you can see that sometimes you get caught up in your own ideas

and you get caught up.

00:25:31 Anthony

And a lot of the insignificant things that just don't really matter.

00:25:35 Anthony

And the more of those trivial matters that you.

00:25:39 Anthony

Can let go.

00:25:40 Anthony

The more you can focus on the important things that you can be optimistic, grateful.

00:25:46 Anthony

Which then cultivates the hopefulness.

00:25:49 Brian

Interesting, so are there any tools that you like to use for that?

00:25:53 Brian

Any specific programs or meditation or?

00:25:56 Brian

Anything like that?

00:25:59 Anthony

I think just questioning everything.

00:26:01 Anthony

I think that's really and that can be difficult to do.

00:26:04 Anthony

I think finding the right questions is is critical.

00:26:09 Anthony

We do have reflective questions on the EGO Lab website where you can go through there and find some

of the hard questions that you can ask yourself to.

00:26:18 Anthony

Kind of just give yourself that paradigm shift or just set yourself up for a new framework.

00:26:25 Anthony

Which I think is the bottom line, if you can change the framework then you can cultivate the attitude

and the hopefulness that you need.

00:26:34 Brian

Yeah, there's a really interesting concept of you know what makes your reality come to life and you have

these thoughts and your thoughts become patterns that you continually act out in the world.

00:26:46 Brian

And then those patterns that you act out in.

00:26:48 Brian

The world become your habits.

00:26:50 Brian

And those habits kind of reinforce back to the original.

00:26:54 Brian

You know, the loop of this is who I am and you start telling yourself those stories in that pattern.

00:26:59 Brian

So putting something like you said in the middle of that loop just to break it up so you're not just

continually telling yourself stories that become habits and circle around that could be a really effective

tool.

00:27:12 Anthony

Yeah, I like the focus on tools, which makes me question.

00:27:17 Anthony

Do you think that some people are just naturally born as just like super optimistic, super grateful and

some people are just born to be sad and less hopeful and more depressed?

00:27:31 Anthony

What do you think is is the balance there and

00:27:35 Anthony

Does everybody learn to be hopeful?

00:27:37 Anthony

What do you think?

00:27:38 Brian

I think that there's probably some threshold of what people are capable of doing, right.

00:27:45 Brian

We're all built different biologically.

00:27:47 Brian

We all have different upbringings.

00:27:48 Brian

We all have different surroundings and factors and supports that come.

00:27:51 Brian

Into play here.

00:27:52 Brian

So I think there's some limiting factors and some factors that can open.

00:27:56 Brian

This up for people.

00:27:58 Brian

There's some levers you can pull, and some you can't.

00:28:00 Brian

You know you can't control what you did from your zero to 20, you know, but you can maybe control

the next year of your life, so I think it's probably true that there's some physiological components.

00:28:13 Brian

You mentioned depression, right?

00:28:15 Brian

A whole lot of science out there that suggests there's a biological component to that, I.

00:28:21 Brian

I would think that there's tools you can use in that space.

00:28:24 Brian

I know you've got some ideas on.

00:28:25 Brian

This I'd love to hear.

00:28:27 Anthony

Yeah, so I recently read this book.

00:28:30 Anthony

Great book.

00:28:31 Anthony

The happiness hypothesis by Jonathan Haidt and he goes into this and he he basically says that.

00:28:39 Anthony

Your happiness and your outlook is to some extent, predetermined, almost like a thermostat, and that

everybody has a biological range that they're within. So maybe your setpoint is like 56 degrees, which

then you would be a very.

00:29:00 Anthony

Or more sad person, but your range could maybe go up to 75 degrees, so by choosing to do these things

like meditation and gratitude journals and reflectiveness.

00:29:14 Anthony

And creating the right environment for yourself. All the things that you can control, you can get to the

top end of that range, maybe at 74 degrees.

00:29:23 Anthony

And then some people maybe have a higher range at naturally just determined by genetics and maybe

the lower end of their range is like 70 degrees and it goes.

00:29:35 Anthony

Up to 82.

00:29:37 Anthony

So that's kind of the example that.

00:29:41 Anthony

Jonathan Haidt brings up in this book, which I think is a very interesting one, and I think.

00:29:45 Anthony

It makes a lot of sense.

00:29:48 Brian

I think there's a lot of value in that, and the idea of there being a range to this because you could easily

get stuck in saying I'm just the type of person who's 56 on the happiness thermostat, when in reality

once you start to open up the idea that you could be someone who can be 20 degrees, you know

warmer, jolly or whatever Jonathan is trying to use that analogy to come across with.

00:30:08 Brian

That is, the game changer.

00:30:10 Brian

Is that OK?

00:30:10 Brian

Now there's some levers to pull.

00:30:12 Brian

You know, there's some ways to modify that, and to make me a happier person or the person that I'd

like to see.

00:30:19 Anthony

Absolutely, and I think one of the amazing things that he brings up in this book is that your attitude can

actually impact your brain so much that it can affect the serotonin receptors in your mind.

00:30:32 Anthony

And you can actually damage them with a negative outlook, and then once you do that, obviously it's

not like you think.

00:30:39 Anthony

Bad thoughts and your serotonin receptors are gone.

00:30:42 Anthony

But some of the balancing mechanisms can get damaged, which which can be fixed in through cognitive

therapy and antidepressants.

00:30:51 Brian

That's according to Jonathan.

00:30:53 Anthony

According to Jonathan, of course I don't claim any of this to be fact, but this is his.

00:30:57 Anthony

Hypothesis.

00:30:59 Anthony

I do think it's interesting that that some studies show.

00:31:04 Anthony

I mean, of course always hesitant to make any sort of definitive claim, but your mindset absolutely does

affect your general level.

00:31:13 Anthony

Happiness and I think that's kind of the interesting thing here.

00:31:17 Anthony

So we talked.

00:31:18 Anthony

About some of the tools to cultivate optimism and how communities cultivate hope.

00:31:26 Anthony

I know you and I both Brian are fans of the book ikigai.

00:31:31 Anthony

And so I'm wondering, do you do optimistic people live longer?

00:31:37 Brian

So one of the.

00:31:38 Brian

Greatest predictors of longevity in life is just being part of communities and being connected to others.

00:31:43 Brian

In the book Ikigai, they talk about the Okinawans and in the Okinawan culture, that's one of the major

things that's a part of their culture is being a part of that community, and it's one of the reasons in

addition to other things.

00:31:56 Brian

But one of the main reasons.

00:31:57 Brian

Why they do live longer.

00:32:00 Anthony

Basically Okinawa.

00:32:02 Anthony

Has this exaggerated amount of supercentenarians. Which is, I believe, people who live over 110.

00:32:10 Brian

It's just 100, no?

00:32:12 Anthony

Centenarian is 100. Supercentenarian is 110.

00:32:15 Brian

Oh, super centenarian.

00:32:17 Brian

I don't know that was.

00:32:17 Anthony

Yeah, super centenarian. So like over 110.

00:32:22 Anthony

Which is like.

00:32:22 Anthony

A ridiculously long time to live, and when the author examines.

00:32:28 Anthony

These people and their lifestyle.

00:32:30 Anthony

He basically attributes it to three things.

00:32:33 Anthony

One was nutrition.

00:32:36 Anthony

Because they all had a very specific like home grown garden diets at least mostly on this island and the

other was community, which is kind of what we're talking about.

00:32:47 Anthony

With hope like these tight communities and the third one was basically like purpose and like a life

passion.

00:32:54 Anthony

So I do think.

00:32:55 Anthony

That hope kind of overlaps with both passion and community, which is two of the three most critical

factors for this optimist.

00:33:05 Anthony

This how these optimistic people live longer.

00:33:10 Brian

Yeah, so there's.

00:33:10 Brian

2 components to longevity.

00:33:12 Brian

There's how long you live, and then there's the quality of that life.

00:33:16 Brian

And what's really interesting.

00:33:19 Brian

That you talk about is all these components that come together to make life worth living.

00:33:24 Brian

And it's not that nutrition and exercise aren't important.

00:33:26 Brian

They're just components to that bigger picture.

00:33:30 Anthony

Yeah, that's very well said I.

00:33:32 Anthony

I think.

00:33:33 Anthony

It's not that we're saying that.

00:33:35 Anthony

Living longer is the goal.

00:33:37 Anthony

However, I think that's just the consequence of living a more meaningful life.

00:33:43 Anthony

People, for whatever reason.

00:33:45 Anthony

I guess they live longer having that quality.

00:33:48 Anthony

Just leads to longevity, which I think even more so shows the importance of getting that right framework

and really just deciding with intention, like how you.

00:34:00 Anthony

Want to live your life.

00:34:02 Brian

We hear you know, we're sitting here and talking about the importance of having a good mindset, the

importance of being optimistic and hopeful.

00:34:08 Brian

But what about the people who don't want to hear that?

00:34:10 Brian

What about the people who are like I've been told that a million times?

00:34:14 Anthony

What I think you can do is accept that sometimes life is just.

00:34:18 Anthony

Going to suck.

00:34:20 Anthony

Like it's not always going to be.

00:34:21 Anthony

Great, and sometimes it's really hard to build these habits.

00:34:27 Anthony

But I do think that you have to try.

00:34:31 Anthony

Like you can't give up, I think just don't give up.

00:34:34 Anthony

And before you know it, even if you just do one thing every day that eventually over time you won't

even realize it, you won't see the changes.

00:34:44 Anthony

The switch will flip eventually and I think you just.

00:34:47 Anthony

Have to hope.

00:34:48 Anthony

And recognize that down the line it will be different.

00:34:52 Anthony

You have no idea where you'll be one year.

00:34:55 Anthony

From now, two years from now, three years from now, let alone 10 years from now.

00:35:00 Anthony

And maybe consider how much you've changed just in the past two or three years.

00:35:04 Anthony

Think about where you were three years ago and.

00:35:08 Anthony

Give yourself some credit for how far you've come.

00:35:10 Anthony

And don't underestimate how far you will go.

00:35:14 Brian

Yeah, very good.

00:35:15 Brian

I think we get into this habit of comparing ourselves to other people and kind of what you alluded to.

00:35:20 Brian

It's much more helpful to compare yourself to yourself and to see your growth and not to worry about.

00:35:25 Brian

All these external forces.

00:35:27 Brian

But just to.

00:35:28 Brian

Appreciate how far you've come in your journey and allow that to be kind of a beacon of hope for the

future.

00:35:34 Brian

You know, see where that all the growth in the past where it leads to the future.

00:35:38 Anthony

I love it.

00:35:40 Anthony

That's a great place to end.

00:35:42 Anthony

And just one last question for the audience, what's one thing that you can be proud of in the past couple

years?

00:35:50 Anthony

That can make you.

00:35:50 Anthony

Feel hopeful for the future.